THE ARCHETYPAL DREAMWORK EPISODE

In this episode we explore Archetypal Dreamwork, a practice dedicated to unraveling the unique world of dreams. Unlike general dream interpretation, Archetypal Dreamwork understands that each dream is specifically formed for you and you alone, offering insight, guidance, and understanding through the countless stories that unfold in the theater of your mind, crafted by the wisdom of your own soul while you sleep.

Amy Trafford is a dedicated Archetypal Dreamwork practitioner whose work invites us to move beyond the surface of our dreams and into the living symbols and archetypes that speak to us from within. Rooted in the understanding that our dreams are a profound and personal language, Amy guides her clients toward a deeper relationship with their inner world and the wisdom it holds. You can learn more about Amy and her work at www.awtdreamwork.com.

Our willing participant, Heidi Harris, is an artist and photographer specializing in creative portraiture with families, children, and large hospitality brands. Having built her own business over twenty years, Heidi began her career in celebrity and destination weddings before expanding into commercial photography for brands and interior designers. She works with a diverse and supportive team serving the Atlanta area. Heidi has been drawn to energy work since childhood and brings an open mind and genuine curiosity to every new method of understanding and expansion.

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Transcript

Amy 0:05

My favorite things are things that are very difficult to put into words, if not impossible. And that is how I feel, about dreams ultimately, I have this awareness is we're trying to bring to life something and put into words, something that is ultimately. Undescribable and it's so deep, in the feeling and in the experience of it. I just feel like it's my favorite thing and I feel so passionately obviously because my dreams and working with my dreams have completely changed my life and healed me so deeply and continue to help me so deeply. And I just want to be here to offer that to Anyone who feels inclined,

Krista 0:48

Welcome to season two of the Beginner's Guide to the Third Eye, the podcast that delves into the profound realms of spiritual experiences, exploring the dedicated practitioners and various modalities that guide us on our transformative path. Together, we will explore the mystical, the magical, the enlightened, and the sacred. In each episode, we pair seasoned practitioners, spiritual experiences, or healing modalities, and a willing participant to share their experience in working together. We will explore the unique insights, stories, and wisdom gained from their own profound journeys, unveiling the extraordinary narratives that shape spiritual seekers and practitioners alike. My name is Krista Rauschenberg and my work as a healer has emerged from hundreds of hours of certified training spiritual initiations, direct experience, and deep personal work. I've been employed in the healing arts as a postpartum doula, an advanced Akashic reader, and an Akashic breathwork practitioner and a writer. Facilitating and educating people through their personal, spiritual, and healing journeys is my greatest source of happiness. Welcome once again to the Beginner's Guide to the Third Eye, where we demystify the mystical. On today's episode, we'll explore archetypal dream work. Archetypal Dreamwork is a practice that helps us engage with our dreams in a meaningful way, uncovering patterns, emotions, and messages that can support personal growth and transformation. Dreams are often fascinating and not entirely understood. Most importantly, they have a way of speaking to us, offering insight, guidance, and a deeper understanding of ourselves. But interpreting them isn't always straightforward. In this conversation, we'll explore what archetypal dream work is, how it differs from traditional dream interpretation, and how engaging with our dreams can bring clarity, awareness, and even a sense of reconnection with ourselves. Let's welcome our guests for this episode of Archetypal Dream Work. I am thrilled to welcome Amy Trafford. Amy is an archetypal dream therapist and teacher with 25 years of experience in the field. She is passionate about helping people explore the symbols and stories that emerge in their dreams, and she believes that dreams are not random, but deeply personal offering each of us exactly what we need to see. If we're willing to look through this practice, Amy helps us bridge the subconscious and conscious mind using and working with dreams as a tool for healing and self-discovery. And our willing participant is Heidi Harris. I. Heidi is an artist and photographer specializing in creative portraiture with families, children, and large hospitality brands. She has been interested in and engaged with energy work since she was small and strives to be open-minded and curious towards new methods of understanding and expansion. Welcome to you both. I am so happy to have you. A big part of why I wanted to bring this podcast to life was to showcase energy workers and demystify what they do, how they do it and why. So Amy, I would love to start with you and get a bit of your background. Tell me about your first experiences with the metaphysical world. How did this work come to you and then how has your life unfolded to get you where you are today?

Amy 4:11

Yeah. Wow. That's a good question. I don't know that I can answer except to say when I was little, I was raised Quaker and every weekend, I would be in Quaker meeting, and I was small, like five, six years old, and That really was good for me and it opened things up for me a lot. Like I had a space where there was a lot of support and curiosity and it was this open. Like the field of love was really open and I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know that it was weird, wow, it's so interesting. I'm feeling so much fear talking about it.

Krista 4:52

Was it weird though? Why was it weird?

Amy 4:55

So it wasn't weird, thank you. I feel scared talking about it but I just had this, I had this connection to God, to something, that I always was in conversation.

Krista 5:09

Quickly, just to be clear, Quakers come together and do they sit in silence and then you rise up if you feel the spirit of God or you feel, yeah,

Amy 5:19

Yes. And there's singing. So it's big silences. Ringing bells and big silences and very little speaking actually which I loved because it felt really real and true. So that was really all very wonderful. Yeah.

Krista 5:33

Yeah. A lot of what. We do today in spiritual practice, like meditation, listening toning, singing, all of that is, is beautiful spirited work.

Amy 5:45

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Krista 5:47

Were children allowed to speak at any age.

Amy 5:50

any age. I felt totally Seen and held as an inequal, in this sea of older people, there weren't very many younger people, but my grandmother played piano in our meeting house. So that was special also. I didn't realize this until later, but I had this great container for my kind of inner world to grow. And my grandpa died when I was six and I was right outside in the doorway and I was like. He's gone like I just I could feel it was like his spirit went past me and then all the adults went in the room and and he had died and so So that might be an answer to your question

Krista 6:35

It's so interesting when you live in a culture that normalizes God's presence and, allows that to be an integral part of things without bastardizing it or bringing in man or human confines to it. I see that a lot with. Tribal cultures or ancient cultures where it's not other. It's not abstract. It's not separate.

Amy 7:01

Right. In fact because of the nature of the Quaker faith what I felt and learned was that it was mine, there was space to cultivate something like a relationship and there were no rules. I wasn't told anything was wrong, there was no framework, except to be around all these people who just had such integrity and love and all the silence really worked for me. And a lot really grew, from that place. Because later When my grandmother also died, we stopped going to Quaker meeting and started going to a more traditional church, and it was shocking. I was like, whoa, like it was really, really shocking.

Krista 7:48

I will say, and I've known you for several years now, that, your ability to love and the way you love me and our friendship, full disclosure, I have voicemails saved from you, because you're just so Easy with love and witnessing and it's so pure to me. I always have a wow with you. So yay Quakers. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. So tell me then, how you stepped into this. Archetypal dream work.

Amy 8:25

Yeah, so starting when I was about 10, when my grandma died, that was a marker for me because that was my experience of unconditional love and so when she died we stopped going to Quaker meeting, things started to get more difficult and my dreams started to change. I started noticing my dreams and they were making up the difference, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They came because they knew I needed them, which is what the dreams do. So I felt. Very much uplifted without even understanding why or anything. And then when I hit about 13, I started just writing a lot, and I would write my dreams and they really became this source of support it was very secretive at first. I kept it to myself but I knew it was that same place. I felt that the dreams were coming from that same place that I had known, and that had been growing, since I was young and in that meeting house and sitting amongst those people in that silence and singing those songs. And so dreams just really held this place and as life became more difficult as just living and being in the world became more difficult and puberty and depression and Anorexia, like very severe eating disorder, and self abusive stuff started coming in for me. My dreams were coming and coming and really trying to support me there. And I would sit with this. Wonderful woman, Jennifer, on the bus going to school and we would share our dreams with each other. And we would only share, we wouldn't say anything else. We wouldn't comment on the other's dreams, but we would just share our dreams. I like send a prayer out to her all the time. So this is another one for her because she was so wonderful and such a support in her own way. Then when I was 20 and in college I was feeling pretty well, I was getting a handle on a way to cope and the eating disorder stuff was like, okay, like it was not super active, but it was still present still trying to get me and pull me in, but I was able to manage it and I was walking across campus, I remember exactly where I was and everything at this tiny, College in Vermont and I stopped dead on the path and I was like, there's more to life than this. There has to be more than this. Like I could live like this forever, just coping and it would be okay. But I know there's more. I know there's more it was like a prayer in the moment. Plea, please help me because I want to find them more. I know there's more to me underneath all of these layers. of coping and managing trauma, that have been burying me, I could feel my soul underneath and that to me was the whisper of my soul saying okay, now you're stable enough, and we can start to really get some work done. And then a good friend of mine just came with the phone number. Of, who became my therapist and is to this day and my teacher and, that's when I really began at 20 to work my own dreams with this person and knowing within a few years that I really wanted to learn how to do it with others.

Krista 11:41

Wow.

Amy 11:42

Yeah.

Krista 11:43

Miraculous.

Amy 11:47

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so grateful. Always.

Krista 11:51

And the way you've turned it around to help other people. It's just so beautiful and almost simple in its way. This is who I am and this is how I can help. Wow. It's beautiful.

Amy 12:03

It changed my life so completely, nothing was working for me, no therapies that I was trying, nothing was really working. And I stepped in with my dreams, and I was like, in the session, I was like, I don't know what's happening, but this is it. This is my language. This is so I can talk to someone and they understand, I knew something was happening.

Krista 12:27

There are so many different modalities and Not everything is going to be the right fit, but as people step into the esoteric, it's so important for them to, let's say they try tarot and it doesn't really resonate, to not then give up in the esoteric realms, keep looking and trying and be curious and find the thing that works for you, that works for you. As you said, speaks your language, but then also know when if that's no longer resonating to move on and keep searching and keep evolving and growing and using anything and everything that works for you. What works for one is not necessarily going to work for the other. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, my dear. Thank you so much. Heidi uh, tell us a bit about your background. Tell us what kind of readings or healings you've had before and maybe even what your expectations or reservations were coming into these sessions with Amy.

Heidi 13:30

Sure. I'll go in a chronological way like you did, Amy. And I'll share some things that are going to be really fun to share with you. Specifically I came in to this. world as a twin. And I believe it is my belief that's what gave me a great understanding to a connection with energy or an energetic body. For example, if I wasn't in the same room as my sister, I still felt part of that's my nature. My nature is you. To be drawn to that energetic connection. That's my whole frame of reference. So that always just felt very natural to me. And I was always very curious. I've always felt surrounded by love despite the fact that my household growing up was extremely difficult. Just a classic abuse, neglect lots of different dynamics happening at home. And, thankfully. And definitely without me choosing it, I've just felt protected and guided. I felt like things were going to be okay. And I've just listened to that. Also in this kind of traumatic childhood, my dreams started showing up very early. So I would say my earliest memory to this kind of energetic metaphysical realm. I would have really intense dreams that I wasn't really sure, where they came from, but I liked them and was curious. I also had inclinations when I was in other people's homes if there was spirit around I would see auras I didn't know that word when I was small, but I remember my hands feeling warm If I was in a place and I felt like there was another entity nearby and these kind of very natural things really flooding in I never resisted, but it did feel pretty overwhelming to try to manage that without. words to describe,

Krista 15:46

did those things inform you? In ways that helped you navigate the world, for instance, if you saw an aura that wasn't necessarily bright, did you avoid? Or if it was something that you felt good about, did you engage more?

Heidi 16:02

I guess with auras, I would say I would have, feelings about people and situations. If I shifted my focus to read auras, or to see auras, it was super fascinating to me to know that our existence, our living experience has this around it also. And that was really interesting to me. And it's also something that I felt made me feel very held in the earth. I felt very that warm sunshine on your shoulders. I just felt Like this is good there. This is not bad or nefarious. It's not scary. My dreams, however, were really scary. Almost exclusively nightmares. When I was younger, if it wasn't a nightmare, it was a predictive dream. So I would wake up with a very strong feeling in my gut. I would know exactly it's for this person. This is what's happening. And when I was small I didn't trust that. I would keep some things to myself, notice them. And eventually after enough. I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to start talking about it. And my household is not a supportive place for this, but I did it anyway. And I predicted things. I would notice that they would come up in a series of numbers. That would be either like three days, three weeks, three months. Seemed pretty typical. Like my mom had a gallbladder. Yes, a gallbladder infection. And I felt that I'm my brother's friend got in a motorcycle accident and I knew that was going to happen and told them. So things like this started happening and my family was just we don't know where you came from.

Krista 18:03

And this wasn't shared with your twin? Did your twin have a similar experience? Wow, that's interesting. And you're identical twins?

Heidi 18:10

We are identical twins. However, we are mirror twins, which is essentially what it sounds like equal opposite. So our fingerprints are the same, but on opposite hands, our eyes are inverted color. We would see the same teeth on the same day, but opposite sides of our mouth. And how we process information and emotion is very different. And she never liked me. She would frequently attack me pretty much for the duration of our relationship. And small ways when we were little and big ways when we were older. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, so it's always been that kind of comfort that I guess like a seeking or an understanding which now looking back I can really see it being there for me. Helping me get out. These nightmares just kept

Krista 19:02

coming and frequency, it was it like every night. And for how long,

Heidi 19:09

I would say at least three times a week. And if I was feeling particularly creative and I'm an artist, I've always been an artist. And when I was feeling particularly energized in my brain, it would happen with more intensity. Sometimes I'd have four different nightmares per night. Sometimes I become so terrified that my pupils would dilate. And I would feel things in my nightmares. I could smell things. Extremely visceral. And I was okay with it because I didn't want to. alter my creative process. Wow. What I did was start seeing a therapist for dream work when I was 24. And I still see that therapist too. So Amy, that's similar, like my dreams are what led me to therapy. And it's through my work with her that really opened. The doors for all of these other things, Tarot, Reiki energy work, chakras, yoga. And the list goes on. So it is through therapy that I started learning the words, seeing the process and expanding my mind. But I feel like the framework, like you said, it was there.

Krista 20:29

Incredible. Amy, let's talk about your work, archetypal dream work for someone that doesn't know or is not familiar. What is it exactly? How does it work and what is its purpose?

Amy 20:42

So the purpose is really To heal it's a path to return to our souls, our soul selves which when I first heard that like that, I was like. What do you mean return to my soul? What am I now?

Krista 21:00

It brings up a good question. So do you believe we live separate from our soul? And if so, what does that look like?

Amy 21:07

Going back to what I shared, as an example so we're born into this world and we are undefended, and that is so vulnerable and that is our soul selves, the child in dreams, the soul comes as the child, as children we're have that innocence that curiosity that our minds are totally, not even online for a while, we're just having our experience and then depending on certain things The experience with our parents in our house, with our caregivers. If we even have them, there's certain elements and levels of trauma that can be present. Unfortunately, with abuse and neglect and the more overt things. And there's also just living and being in the world, growing up and the things that we learn consciously and unconsciously by just paying attention to people around us, as a woman, as a girl, learned that. I was less I had to be nice. No one said this to me explicitly, but I learned I, I must be nice. I cannot be angry. I have to smile all the time. I have to above all else. I have to be pretty when you hit puberty, it all starts coming in really heavy. Then, I have to look this certain way and be this certain way and act this certain way. And have as many people like me as, as much as possible, I have to be successful, all the rules, you learn the rules. Even in describing it, I feel the landslide.

Krista 22:34

No, I'm exhausted. Yeah, it's like all this stuff.

Amy 22:37

Coming at us, right? And then also, a big thing that we learn is that our feelings are not okay. And that we need to do everything we can to suppress to not feel our feelings. And that is a big one. So growing up I would go in my room and I would shut the door and then I would cry. In hiding, I would feel things and that's part of what the dreams are doing is the dreams are peeling all the layers. And you know how I feel It is like that our soul is way. Under the ground, like the roots of a tree, and we're more and more learning to manage and control and not feel

Krista 23:18

really quick, would you say that dreams are subconscious or are conscious? Subconscious. Yeah. Yeah,

Amy 23:27

the unconscious, the

Krista 23:29

unconscious,

Amy 23:29

Yeah.

Krista 23:30

Then is that our soul? Is our soul the unconscious?

Amy 23:34

Our soul is there, our soul exists and is untouchable, and exists in this realm this field of unconditional love and is always innocent always okay, but our traumas and past life traumas can come in and can just get piled upon us and everyone I've ever worked with and everyone I've witnessed in the training that I've done has all the the layers and the ways that we've learned to hide and to just cope, and way back with the plea to myself. It was like, I don't want to just cope. I want to be living and be fully alive and engaged and love to come back to this place and this capacity to love, which is I feel a part of why I was put in this earth so the dreams are peeling everything off and how they do that is they come very gently, knowing us more than any one person. Even the people closest to us, dreams know us so deeply and so intimately, the dreams are crafted for our souls and our souls alone. So I can have a dream that's the same as your dream and that looks the same as Heidi's dream, but it's different for me because I am different and my soul's different and my life experience has been different.

Krista 24:55

So from what I'm interpreting. Our soul is speaking to us through dreams. So dreams would just be the material or the mechanism, like the telephone. If I'm going to have a conversation with you, I'm going to speak to you, but I'm going to use a telephone. That telephone is an inanimate object. It's really my soul speaking to me through dreams, is that correct?

Amy 25:20

That's a good way to say it, using that metaphor with the phone cord, it's like, feeling the pull, the pull of the soul this connection is open. It's also energetic, so our soul wants to be found, wants to be recovered, and so the dreams come just very simply and gently with a feeling with just one feeling. And that is the way in, the offering and the invitation to just feel one thing and start there. And these things are often have been lost, they're unconscious. So the dreams are trying to bring them into consciousness for us.

Krista 25:57

It reminds me of, and I'm sure you've seen those videos when someone befriends a wild animal and feeds it or cares for it in some way, and then that wild animal comes back with a little offering, like crows will bring things, this little beautiful loving thing. offering.

Amy 26:18

Absolutely. That's absolutely,

Krista 26:20

the thing could have no value, but the feeling of it is immense. It has incredible value. It makes me wonder why are dreams necessary? Is it because of the way we live? And then follow up question. I know that there's people that don't remember their dreams at all ever. And say, I don't dream, which I wonder about that as well. What's your opinion on that?

Amy 26:52

I don't really know, but my feeling is that everyone dreams. And it's just that we don't remember. But that it's happening, you know that it is happening.

Krista 27:02

I'd certainly dream. It's not a huge source of communication with me. But my communication to source and spirit comes in other ways. So perhaps it's that We all have a connection point and it can come through in a variety of ways and that might be unique to the individual or their trauma experience, their even personality.

Amy 27:28

Absolutely. Yeah. What I feel is unique and I really appreciate about archetypal dream work and the Jungian kind of style, is that there is that element of self reflection. There is the sort of shadow work side. And so dreams bring us the feeling that they're inviting us to feel. That's the sort of, Hey, if you want to look at this, there's this, and then they usually also bring the things to help us see to bring us back into consciousness. And part of that coming back to life involves becoming aware of the patterns that we have developed over time to manage and control the things that we're doing to not feel. that feeling that the dream is bringing and to me, it's so beautiful because everything is brought with such love.

Krista 28:22

I think ultimately it's inviting us to feel, which is inviting us to process, which is the threshold to healing, to integrate, right? Yes. Yes. It feels to me, the image I got was like a loving, benevolent grandmother seeing that we're hungry and that we need nourishment and putting down a homemade plate of food, without us having to ask heidi, thank you Amy. Heidi, you are someone that has such a rich relationship to your dreams. I learned that you have. Recurring dreams and that you remember your dreams really well, you've remembered dreams since childhood. I would love for you to describe your relationship to your dreams and then tell us about the dream that we're going to look at today.

Heidi 29:13

Sure. I would start by saying my relationship or my understanding of my dreams it always felt like it was coming from somewhere else. That is, I think, the key difference when I was talking with Amy, that it wasn't. And I had never considered that, truly, ways that I do and understand, I felt like it was a lens to somewhere else or coming from something else and not from myself. So that, realization and that shift from our conversation. Was a big difference in my lens of how I will now understand my dreams going forward and how I can recontextualize my recurring dreams that I think is super fascinating. I've always, personified this mystic place that This information was being doled out to me, and maybe it's because I had so many nightmares that the scary feelings that I had kept me, a little bit from accessing or looking deeper, even though I think the scariness was obviously there for a reason.

Krista 30:29

Do you have an understanding of what that reason is now, looking back?

Heidi 30:35

Really only since talking with Amy, do I think that, the feelings of being small or being out of control or being in a dangerous place being unsafe, like all of those things, glaringly obvious. Yes, that is what was going on. The visuals of my dreams, and maybe it's because I'm a visual person, I got a little hung up on those details of Ooh, this time period is different, or, I'm a different gender. I'm meeting different people. I know that we're getting shown things for our benefit, but in terms of it being like from me or from a soul level I didn't connect with that.

Amy 31:17

Why would you want to, because of the intensity. It's like incredibly uncomfortable, to say the least, the intensity of the feeling. It's a lot to, embody

Heidi 31:26

right. And the nightmares were getting to the point where it was becoming so disordered in my waking life. I, of course I'd be tired. There was sometimes I started being afraid to go to sleep at night because I felt like I wouldn't be able to prevent. A horrific nightmare. So I got really good at staying up really late. Or just making myself so tired that I thought I wouldn't have nightmares, but of course I did. If I was tired in the day and had to take a nap in the afternoon, then I would get stuck and sometimes have almost like a sleep paralysis situation also nightmares. And they were just around. All the time, but becoming a problem. And I didn't want to rely on like a sleeping medication. So I took the holistic approach, which is to talk to somebody about it.

Krista 32:13

It makes me think to ask. Amy would you consider that when someone goes into a dream state and these things arise, is there some kind of pressure release valve that's going on especially as a child when she felt so unsafe and there was harm, she was considerably in harm's way at times, was this her body's way of releasing and purging to allow her,

Amy 32:40

That's really interesting. I hadn't really considered that in that way, but I would say that's very possible. Another possibility and only Heidi can speak to this is that, sometimes our realities in the houses where we're growing up, especially in different relationships we're having, can sometimes go without any acknowledgement. So like we're in this horrible, horrific situation, but it's so normalized and everyone's acting so normal and we're acting so normal because we're just trying to survive. And so the dream is coming to say we know that this is happening. We are here with you in the reality of it,

Krista 33:21

I remember. I also was in a very unsafe household and I would have dreams that I was being chased and then I'd have to hide and survive and win and conquer and, fight to live and looking back, my whole life was a fight. So perhaps it was a way to off gas some of that. Energy right that built up tension or energy in addition to what you're saying is a witnessing of we see you

Amy 33:53

right and also just the open question of, like when you're running. What is the feeling you have when you're running? And so whatever that is Say it's terror. It's fear, so then to breathe into that, to give that a little bit of space

Krista 34:10

Interestingly mine was that I was clever and that I could out Fox them and that I could Create safety for myself. So it was like oh, I'm smarter than them or faster than them or more clever than them. I can protect myself. So it makes a lot of sense. Amy, the setup to your work is when you're going to meet with an individual for a session, you have them write to you about a single dream. Could you set the scene for us?

Amy 34:44

Yeah, so some people just have a persistent dream that they keep having and they want to stop having it. And they're like, can you help me? With that, I just want to not be having this difficult dream anymore. So the understanding is that they may or may not continue, with it. But some people want to come and see me weekly, bi weekly or once a month so with those people, it's a little bit different because I know that there's going to be a relationship and all the dreams are going to, stack and build I have several people who see me only when needed, when they have one of those big dreams that feel really big and they just need that. But yeah, I just ask for a dream and if I'm going to work with them on a regular basis. I would also ask for their birth information to cast a chart because that can help streamline things. But the dreams really are the belly button, the tent pole the North star of everything. So I'm going to read your dream and as I'm reading, just go back into that dream and we'll be there together and just enter in as much as you can, like you're right back in the dream. I feel like I'm in a metaphysical setting in a safe place, but in a higher energetic space. It also feels a little like I'm waiting in line. I feel a sensation that someone is approaching from my left. I turn to look and see no one. So in the moment when you have that sensation that someone's approaching from your left, what is that like? Does something happen in your body or do you have a feeling in that moment?

Heidi 36:29

Yes. I feel like, like the waiting in line feels like I know I'm going to meet someone. So I'm becoming aware to, to almost start looking

Amy 36:44

and

Heidi 36:44

that feeling of Towards my left. It's almost like if I was in a room with a door, the only door would have been on that side. It's like I would have known that was the only place they could have entered. Even though in my mind, there is no defined room. I'm in a space.

Amy 37:07

So when you look and there's nothing there, does that bring up a feeling for you?

Heidi 37:14

The dream, it does not feel scary or lonely or isolating. It feels like this is the classroom like this is what I'm being shown or what I'm being given. And it very much feels like I have arrived there. Like it is just a space there is no visual context for it being a house versus outside versus inside versus anywhere.

Amy 37:46

Okay, so, when you look and there's nothing there., it sounds like you're in a place of receptivity. And when you're waiting in line, and you have that feeling of I know I'm here to meet someone, what's that like to feel like you're waiting to meet someone.

Heidi 38:07

It feels exciting and I'm curious, like, I definitely know it's not anything bad or nefarious, no ill will, it just seems kind of exciting, like getting a present or just kind of a curiosity about what will be shown to me. Mm hmm.

Amy 38:30

And everything that you just described, about that excitement, and that curiosity and not knowing, is that something that is familiar that you have experience with, in your waking life,

Heidi 38:43

As you're describing that my very first impulse is yes. And the way that I recognize that is the knowing you know, I work for myself, I'm in a creative industry, and just kind of that resolve that you develop knowing that things will work out, or doors open and close when and how they should, the right people cross your path at the right time, you could never plan it, and you could never plan it as well. So just in the feeling like I have a relationship with that energetic spirit or with the knowing, with the allowance for things to happen to me, for me as like almost like a personification of this other force that is in our life. It's like that, like trusting,

Amy 39:38

mm hmm. And that's something that you feel just ongoing

Heidi 39:42

yes. Very much. Very much like a relationship, like a real relationship.

Amy 39:50

For like your whole life, do you think? Or how long do you, have you been aware of that?

Heidi 39:54

Yes, very much and that could have been from my past growing up in a difficult situation and really kind of meeting that to be safe or out of a desire to connect with. Things outside of my physical body, my physical space, my home, and to be or feel connected to something kind that was bigger and that I've been keenly aware that that has always been around.

Amy 40:27

Then I see movement in my peripheral vision and I bring my attention down towards my feet. A small child appears. Walking towards me. How old is the child? Approximately, do you think?

Heidi 40:45

Unsteady walker. So, one ish.

Amy 40:50

Mm hmm yeah, a toddling. So let's continue and be in that moment of this. Child walking toward you this blonde haired child wearing the green knit sweater and dark pants wearing shoes with buckles and he's stopped at your feet and he's grabbed onto your legs because he's unsteady. And so he's grabbing onto your legs to steady himself and you're wearing this full skirt with all the layers of material. And that's a cushion for him and he's holding on to your legs. How does it feel to see this boy and have him, you know, holding on to you?

Heidi 41:38

You know, I had this dream before I had children. But I very much remember feeling and almost the way that when children that you're not related to hug you or kind of gesture to you to want to be picked up how like incredibly validating and rewarding that feels that you, trusted by it. Yeah. A new soul, I would always like in that sensation of kind of being chosen or being really seen and it's it's fun. I feel like when children make that gesture towards adults. The adults feel delighted.

Amy 42:22

Would you say that, that kind of feeling chosen is an experience that you've had before, you know, elsewhere, Either with people in your waking life and around you, or from that energetic space that you were talking about that you feel connected with or

Heidi 42:41

yeah, I do feel like I might liken that in my waking life to having meaningful conversations with strangers slash. Strangers coming up to me and telling me something very deeply personal because I look familiar to them, or I look like their neighbor when they were younger, or I give them a feeling of warmth and kindness, which this is also something that has happened throughout the duration of my life. Is also something that I've been fascinated by and welcome and believe strongly in those connections and I guess I'm always. Open to that and acknowledge that that exists.

Amy 43:26

And you say you can tell you're in a different time period because of the clothes that you're wearing and that the boy's wearing and he's hanging on and. You're just there with him, and then you have some sort of further awareness that you're an older woman. You're a grandmother, so just take a moment and feel that, feel what it's like to be a grandmother, to have all those years and all that experience, to be cherished by this, toddler to be trusted by this toddler. And how is it to just feel that part of you, the grandmother?

Heidi 44:08

It's so cool. I, I mean, I can draw it, you know, I can distinctly see looking down and thinking, Oh, my, my calves are bigger than normal. And, Oh, these white stockings are a little itchy and, I'm wearing a black skirt and that the hem looks a little tattered and just feeling like, Oh, I'm an old lady. And it's like an old lady that's. You know, from many years ago, if I had to pinpoint a year, I would say maybe the 20s perhaps earlier, but I'm there and it feels like I have had at least eight children and it feels like they have all had kids and I helped raise all of them and a small child is immediately like placating my skillset. And it's like, oh, of course, all children recognize the maternal grandmother comforting woman who loves being around kids. It's so distinct, that feeling of, Like life's work. It feels like life's work. Like I've always been a caretaker to younger. You know, either my children or their children but it seems like identity, like that is a big part, if not the main part of who I am.

Amy 45:40

And do you feel, Heidi, in your life, growing up did you have someone, like this, woman in the dream, for yourself.

Heidi 45:51

No, no. I have had the great fortune of being loved from various people and women. Especially when I needed them growing up, there is very difficult times that I was, staying with friends for the duration of the summer, almost every summer of my high school. I just feel like that would take a lot for another family to take in a teenager. And so I do feel very Protected by a somewhat invisible, elusive maternal spirit. And I have always enjoyed seeing older people very comfortable in their life's wisdom. I've never felt any kind of slight about being given unsolicited advice. And it's always been rather enjoyable to me. But I think I had this dream around adolescence around that time.

Amy 46:53

So when you were a toddler. A toddling, there wasn't a woman to help steady you.

Heidi 47:00

Oh, no.

Amy 47:02

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if you close your eyes and be that boy, be that toddling boy who sees this woman this glowing, woman and is just kind of stumbling, doing that wonderful thing of going too fast, when you're like, out of control, trying to learn to walk, and looking up, or maybe just seeing that skirt and going over and just feeling drawn and holding on to her legs and just letting yourself, rest there. And this woman who's beaming down at you, just beaming, radiating love. And true enjoyment, so happy to have been waiting for you waiting in line to meet you across who knows how many lifetimes I mean really waiting in this space. How is it to be that boy.

Heidi 48:00

Feels, feels great. It feels like home, I would say, or that feeling of connection where it's like the kind of unspoken. There you are kind of,

Amy 48:19

yeah, yeah. And this dream, like every dream it's so specifically for you, and whether you were that woman once or whether you were that boy once or whether this is just a dream, Either way, what this is about is that connection that you're speaking of, and the great love that's here, to greet you, to greet this part of you, this tiny. Tiny part of you that's like just this vulnerable boy. Who's just learning to walk and so, curious and so able to trust and able to receive, love and has that sort of discernment to know You're the one. This woman is the one to toddle over to. Yeah and giving you something, it's like a return, because it's all, I mean, you've had this dream for years, you know, and it's like, this dream is here as an opportunity for you to return to, this place that wasn't your experience in this lifetime,

Krista 49:31

Amy, let's talk about the actual practice of your work. How did you approach this stream? Are you working with your intuition? Are you channeling? Tell us about. How this all feels for you, how it works within you.

Amy 49:46

First and foremost, dreams are to me, the most sacred thing. That intimacy, between the dream and dreamer it's very specific to each person. So my experience of it is that as I read the dream, I'm walking into the dream with the dreamer, and the whole dream opens up in the scene of the dream, I'm there, but I'm not directly there, because it's not my dream, so I go in and I'm feeling everything, and I just asked the question, I try to open the dream space up for the dreamer to be able to reenter, to then have that experience as closely as possible as when they were dreaming, to really get that raw. The rawness and the energetics and the physical. That's the other thing it's like an embodiment. It's like a sensual experience. So to enter into that sensuality, the sensuality of the dream, because dreams are also trying to help us come back into our bodies. Because we're disembodied a lot of the time. So the dreams, can act as a real grounding place. So from standing in the center of the dream. I ask, questions that are guided by the dream. I asked questions that are informed by, what's happening in the dream.

Krista 51:05

Are you looking to bring attention and is attention the conduit for which things will open up and space will be created and therefore information or energy will shift and change grow Diminish,

Amy 51:20

it's really walking toward that place of the intensity of feeling part of that is finding that place and that is the place it's like the beacon and it is vibe like really starts to heat up and Glow, and that's the place to go toward and the invitation something can happen there or not. But often that's where something does it.

Krista 51:42

Heidi, how did it feel for you being in session with Amy?

Heidi 51:47

Oh, it was so fun. And I enjoyed from the very beginning, just writing it down. It's so different than journaling I'm writing down enough for me to remember, but the practice of writing it down for somebody else to be there with me was so cathartic in and of itself because I did need to lean into how I felt the minutia of this detail that I remember to write it down in a way that's descriptive enough for someone else was really cool to dive back in on that level and to be there again. And this dream I have been so curious about it for so long that it was really great to start that way.

Krista 52:30

So if I was the listener, I'd love to hear both of your feeling on like the takeaway of this. But what I'm getting is a dream is in a lot of ways a space a safe space, perhaps. Where all the details have meaning and all the details can guide us, inform us, support us overall to enter into it with. What does this feel like? So not to intellectualize it, not to, you know, I was on a freeway and there was a red car. So a red car must mean this. No, none of the details matter as much as that they're providing a sensory sensual, as you said. experience of it. So to just sit in the feeling of it all, let the details informed through feeling.

Amy 53:32

Yes, the dreams are unconscious, the archetypal realm, is where the dreams come from. And we're so known so deeply. So all those details that you're talking about are coming. As part of a way to elicit that feeling, it's one of my favorite things, about dreams is I'll wake from a dream and I just immediate. It's just like, wow, you just Blew everything apart because of that one thing that one person, you know, from elementary school. And that's the person that just, really can really pierces my heart, pierces my heart. So yes, absolutely. Chris, I would say that's absolutely true. It's like the invitation is always the feeling and the structure of the dream and the narrative that comes with the dream is really orchestrated for us to help open us to that feeling and bring that feeling to the surface.

Krista 54:25

And behind that is another feeling, and another feeling. It's almost teasing us to come back home to our body, to our being, to our soul.

Amy 54:36

To the space of infinite love, to that unconditional love, to, the place beyond the mind. The place of the child. That's another thing that the dreams are trying to do is turn us upside down and shake us by the boots and it can be very discombobulating because we've spent all this time trying to not feel these things, but the dreams are coming and they're like, Hey, here's this thing and narrowing the hallway, so we can't see as, as widely. Yeah.

Krista 55:03

Even spoon feeding us a little bit. Amy, do you dream every night?

Amy 55:09

I do dream every night, but what I'll wake with is just a feeling It's like that unraveling feeling where I'm trying to pull and the sweater's disintegrating as I'm pulling the thread, but I often can have a feeling but nothing else so I am pretty prolific in my dreaming which can just happen once you start paying attention. Most of the people that I work with, they dream a lot. Their dreaming has really expanded as they continue.

Krista 55:38

I was going to say this opened me up really well and widely to, start participating or receiving my dreams in such a different way, just being privy to these conversations between you two, Heidi, I'd love to know if your relationship to your dreams have changed, or have you been dreaming more since your sessions?

Heidi 55:58

I was so excited to go to sleep again. I wonder what's going to happen next. And I did have a really cool dream after. But initially just this perspective shift of leading with the emotion and less the details and that it's from a place of love and from ourself has just. You know, I've spent a lot of time thinking about my dream history and re contextualizing what I thought. And it's been, an incredible gift to realize that this has always been around me to protect me. And I would never have known that if we didn't talk. And it is it's, totally life changing impactful. There's part of me that's man I really could have used this knowledge earlier, but I am so incredibly grateful for it now. And just to make all of the wondering and all of the rough visions that I've had feel better instantaneously. Like you just put a salve on all of it, like instantly. So it's great.

Krista 57:10

Yeah, what a gift. And I love that they're so important to you and Amy, that you turned around and brought that to the world to connect and create community around what is a language, right? And a language that's important to certain people, but supporting them in that. Because we all have our different languages or are different touchstones that work for us in the world in the scene and unseen world. Do you have any ideas as to why people dream so differently and why some people retain their dreams? Why some people have recurring dreams? Have you seen any patterns there? In terms of personality and their relationship to the dream?

Amy 57:55

Generally, I would say it's really comes down to how different we are on a soul level, we're just all so unique. So every dream is coming, holding that uniqueness. So in that way it's amazing and fascinating and it's different. I had a client who was like, I'm just not dreaming. So we would keep going into the same dream. And there was so much more there, but then it turns out, they were dreaming. Some of the most astonishing moments of Revelation and opening come from what people say are like a silly dream or a stupid dream or that, oh, that one doesn't count, and it was like, I was standing in a hallway. In the dark, Oh, that was the whole dream. And it turns out when we went in there, that wasn't the whole dream. And it became a dream that was a touchstone dream for all the work that we did after that, was there was so much happening. Every dream. Is crafted for us and there's not one dream that's more important or better, dreams don't judge, we judge, we judge as humans, we're the ones and our dreams just present things with great love, like yes, there's this anger, and this anger, in fact, is the thing that's covering this pain, and the pain Is the way through and is the path to healing and within this deep pain, there is great love and the anger is being used to cover it. And it's not like you are bad because of that. It's a presentation, open handed presentation, just with the radiance of love,

Krista 59:29

Yeah, we are so competitive in this human condition. So I hear what you're saying. And then we do minimize ourselves to, but just to condense it down it's another way to connect through feeling. Which if you look at the underlying current of all of these energetic practices, everything's in different ways trying to get you to a place to allow you to feel. Yeah. I think our one job on this planet is to feel our feelings. In order to process and integrate and become happy and whole.

Heidi 1:00:10

Yeah, I think that feeling is the ultimate truth. That's truth. And of course it's different for each person, but can't really argue with how somebody feels. That is their truth I know I like to think of all these different things. The records Reiki, past lives, your spirit guides, all of these things. Of having a team on the bench and I don't want to bench my players. Let them play. Activate them. They want to work for you. They're there for you. Don't let them sit down for your whole entire life. Get them up and moving around for you. Amy,

Krista 1:00:46

tell us why you do the work that you do. What does it mean to you and what does it give to you?

Amy 1:00:52

Sure. Oh my gosh. It's means the most to me. It's like my favorite thing in the world. My favorite things are things that are very difficult to put into words, if not impossible. And that is how I feel, about dreams ultimately, I have this awareness is we're trying to bring to life something and put into words, something that is ultimately. Undescribable and it's so deep, in the feeling and in the experience of it. I just feel like it's my favorite thing and I feel so passionately obviously because my dreams and working with my dreams have completely changed my life and healed me so deeply and continue to help me so deeply. And I just want to be here to offer that to Anyone who feels inclined, you know as I did, and like you said krista It's not for everyone, but if it's for you, I'm here. And if you're feeling your body vibrating as we're talking and there's that thing that's yes. Then, then try it out. So I just really want to be of service more than anything in the whole wide world. And this is one of the ways that I. Feel I can be of service. And the other way is just the practice of presence, which is what part of what the dreams naturally teach. And that is where I feel like it changes the world so much when we can just really be here with one another and in our bodies and in the present moment. It's so joyous. I can barely stand it. But I love the dreams and they continually teach me and blow my mind so often. And it's like this continual process of learning and I feel so grateful to shepherd people into and through. Yeah, I think that answered your question.

Krista 1:02:39

I mean it did more than that I feel like I took a stardust bath or something. Thank you. I'm leaving this conversation incredibly inspired, but also. With the understanding that we're all so unique and complicated and there's so many ways to imagine and be within ourselves. And it is really hard to put language to it all. And this is just one lesson. It's a fascinating facet of probably millions of ways to connect, but if we distill it all down, it is all about connection and coming home until we go home. Thank you both so much for your time and energy and just everything that you brought to this conversation the love and the genuine parts of yourself that you let us experience. Connect to and see and enjoy. I really appreciate it. I would love to share with the listeners where we can find both of you. Amy, what's the best way to connect with you?

Amy 1:03:42

Go to my website, which is a w t dreamwork. com. And then there's on every page, there's a contact Amy, to click and you can reach out to me and, and we can schedule something whether you just have general questions or want to start right in.

Krista 1:03:58

It's a beautiful website and I'll put that on our website. And then Heidi.

Heidi 1:04:02

You can find my work with kids at sillygoosephoto. com. And then my personal work is heidiharrisfotography. com. It's more commercial work and some other projects. So both places are great. Where you can see what I do.

Krista 1:04:18

Beautiful. And I'll put those on the website as well. Alright ladies! Thank you so much.

Amy 1:04:24

Thank you. It's wonderful to be together and so grateful for both of you. My heart is expanding exponentially.

Krista 1:04:33

Your heart is always that big.

Heidi 1:04:35

Thank you both. I love you

Krista 1:04:36

both.

Heidi 1:04:36

Thank you.

Krista 1:04:37

Thank you. You lots of love. Bye guys. Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Beginner's Guide to the Third Eye. For more information about the show, visit our website Beginners guide to the third eye.com. For show inquiries, email us at Guide to the Third i@gmail.com and visit the shop page on our website to find many of the products suggested by our practitioners and participants. And if you would be so kind, please leave a review and follow us on your go to podcast platform as it helps build our audience. Thank you. See you soon.